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Serranna
Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 4:07:04 PM

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Location: Starlen's Crossing
Hail to Nobles and Gentles All!
I have read several times discussions of bad nobles, and while this question was posted at home over the winter, I would like to open it to a wider audience. In this, I would ask that all nobles and gentles keep their commentaries positive or to themselves, as ideals to which people may be held are best expressed in positive terms.
I recently have gathered together several treatises on various aspects of courtesy, social structure and chivalry. Having in that manner gained something of a background on overarching social customs of interaction, I would like to put the question of nobility to those who live as nobles and commoners, for their varying and valued perspectives.
More succintly, nobles and gentles all: What does nobility mean to you?
Is it title? Action? Intent? Philosophy? What makes a person of title truly "noble"?

Safe travels to you all throughout the summer.

~Dame Serranna~
Order of the Silver Quill (Izendorn)
Sponsor
Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 4:07:04 PM
michael
Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 7:53:39 PM
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Noble is a quality not an individual. Since the Gaje have decided to make it a title as well, that title should only be bestowed upon those that exhibit Nobility not when people are watching, but when no one is watching.
I have met few that met the measure.

Without the quality of Nobility a Noble gets only my disdain and occasionally my blade, never my respect or fealty.

Michael Drago
Grom Shield-Breaker
Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 8:30:16 PM

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a noble is one of the people in charge right? If so than what makes a noble is that they are the strongest.



Scribe of Grom Shield-Breaker.
Uruk Durbo of the Bloody Mace Clan of the Nardurbum Tribe
Cromer
Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:21:23 PM

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They may be in charge of a particular area, but they are not always the strongest. I have met many a weak one. Many times it is a matter of favoritism that they are put in their positions. Sometimes it is political to satisfy a neighboring ally or even enemy.

May your way be unhindered,

Castel Ba'nat
Sir Brock
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 10:31:30 AM
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I am saddened by all of the stories that I have heard about nobles who do not understand their place. I am a knight, it is my task to protect those who are weaker than I, from both external and internal threats. I take no treausre that is not necessary for me to accomplish this task. In practice this means that all gold, silver and platium that I get goes to others, I do take components and magic items but only if they are needed to allow me to complete my objectives. I believe I have always been fair with everyone I have dealt with. I take my tasks very seriously, I would never punish someone without adequate proof of their guilt and the law abiding citizen must realize that I punish the law breakers to protect them, not to protect myself.

One of the most abused statutes that I have noticed is mockery of a noble, this statute is in place to prevent degradatory remarks which undermine a nobles authority thus preventing them from doing their job. It is not a catch all to allow punishment of anyone who is saying something you do not like, many nobles treat it as such. I do not.

I am a knight, I have died several times doing things that make you safer, I will always stand in the front, I give freely of myself and that which I have, I live by the following code, if ever you see me not adhering to this tell me so I may correct my actions i will not get angry.

Thou shall protect the weak and constitute thyself a defender of them

Thou shall love the land in which thou has sworn fealty

Thou shall not recoil before thy enemy

Thou shall fight evil without cessation

Thou shall scrupulously perform thy noble duties if they be not contrary to the laws of the land

Thou shall be generous and give freely to everyone

Thou shall never lie, thou shall always remain faithful to they word

Thou shall everywhere and always be a champion of right and good against injustice and evil

When I swore these words I swore them not only to my liege, the late Baron Ecaed, but to all of you, I hope that I have lived this code, if I have not I am ashamed and will strive to do better.


Sir Brock Janson House Lothrien
Order of the Storm
Second Knight of Lumberton Shire
Shield of the Shire

Thing
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 11:58:58 AM
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Nobles are just as tasty with ketchup as anyone else.

Some nobles are very helpful, overall. Others are not. I have been a noble -- it just kind of happened -- I kept getting asked, and, sure, being at the top of the heap seemed much nicer than being at the bottom.

In an case, all nobles, from Emperors on down, rule at the point of a sword. They're the nobles because they have the power to claim the title. That's it. Nobles watch out for each other because the strength of their position comes in numbers. If nobles let the authority of one noble be undermined, that weakens them all.

Is this a bad thing? Not at all. All rule comes ultimately at swordpoint. All you ever get a choice of is who holds the sword. I have never heard of a ruler who had the unanimous consent or support of his people -- sooner or later the ruler must make unpopular decisions, and force is required to enforce them. In land where Necromancy is illegal, certainly the rulers do not have the support of the Necromancers, but what gave the rulers the right to persecute Necromancers? In Stonegate, creating golems is illegal. What gave the late King Balladan the right to impose this odd phobia of his on perfectly well-meaning wizards across his kingdom? Power, might, that is what gave him the right. To enforce order requires power and the will to use it.

Certaintly many nobles have good intentions and try to make life better for the people they rule, but in the end, they are using their power to enforce their intentions and their ideas of what is "good for the people" and people and things that the nobles decide are not "good for the people" will not fare well if they oppose them.

When a noble so angers the people that he causes the people to rise up, or causes fellow nobles to take him down (because allowing him to continue to outrage the people weakens their own positions), then we get to change who holds the sword. If we are very lucky, the new noble will hold us more lightly to the sword than the old noble. But we are still under his sword.

That is the way of life. Nobles don't have a responsibility to be kind, compassionate or selfless to any more extent than it is required for them to maintain power. Fear and love work equally well for holding power. And subjects' love is arguably a more fickle, less reliable thing than their fear. You don't deserve any more in life than you are willing to fight for.

Sir Brock
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 1:26:51 PM
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We are oft to blame in this, - / 'Tis too much proved - that with devotion's visage/ And pious action we do sugar o'er/ The devil himself.


Thing
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 1:36:42 PM
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Sir Brock wrote:
We are oft to blame in this, - / 'Tis too much proved - that with devotion's visage/ And pious action we do sugar o'er/ The devil himself.


I know some people I'd like to sugar over and puff full of tasty cream filling.

... wait, there were entirely too many entendres there. Think dessert food, not ... anything else.

Thing
Reesie Damashay
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 1:53:02 PM
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I think TRUE nobility is when someone uses the gifts they were given to protect and improve the lives of others...

Obviously there is much that could be added to that, but I think I will go for short and sweet... (for a change)

Your Friend,

Reesie Damashay
Bandoleer of Damashay Clan,
Great Sage of Gypsy Hooch,
Entertainer of Seelie Faye,
Champion to Seelie Lord of the Wood,
Drinker of Extra-planar hooch,
Slayer of Giant Sphinx (I had help, though),
Seeker of buried treasure,
Seeker of unburied treasure,
Seeker of pretty much any kind of treasure,
Friend of the farmers,
Really Good Friend of farmer's daughters!
Kibosh
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 2:22:51 PM
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Look, I haven't been adventuring very long, but so far I've observed this.

I've gotten way more accomplished with a warm smile, a hug, sharing what I have with those who need it, and a hand reached out in friendship than I ever have swinging KB around.

Perhaps I'm doing it wrong, but that's how my mum and the Great Old Guy taught me to do it, so that's good enough for me.

Perego "Mordan" Kibosh

PS. Also, note. If anyone, noble or otherwise, has a problem with me, see me in the streets next Market day and we'll face each other like men. You can prove how powerful you are, which I'm sure will make you feel much better about your life, and I can get back to having fun.

Till then, may your roads be sunny and straight.
Sean Ritner
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:33:47 PM

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Hi Perego, my name is Taatu. I like the ways you views the world and nobilities. I have similar views of that we can all be friends. I like to hav friends.

That is all.

Taatu of the Nthanda gang


Thing
Posted: Wednesday, July 02, 2008 4:44:21 PM
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Perego, can I face you in the street like a man? Will there be full frontal hugging? I'm excited. Afterward, we'll have food. You can have pie and I'll have live chickens and it will be a party! I should be at the next Vargus gathering. See you there, maybe!

Thing
Tapen Mallen
Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 11:37:09 AM

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Nobility is a title that should be granted to one with a noble spirit. Those who are able to justly and fairly protect the people and the land should be giving the honor to hold a title to help them accomplish that task. Noble titles should be given to those who would do all in their power to protect those who have been placed under their rule. It is an honor to be given to those who would guide their people to a better future. It saddens me when a noble abuses his title and hurts his people.

Tapen Mallen, Follower of Life
"Mercy is a value too commonly forgotten."
Thing
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 5:05:13 AM
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Who grants titles of nobility? Other nobles. Ideals are nice, but I have to live in the real world, where expecting nobility of spirit in anyone in particular, titled or not, is a well-worn path to disillusionment.

Thing
gizmo
Posted: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 12:24:43 PM

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well i have seen that nobles are just like us with just a little more power i make ALOT of mistakes because i am not the smartest person. but i have learned just to go with the flow you know what i meen.



Gizmo Loud
Follower of Stone
False King of the Kobolds
Wildcard
Posted: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:10:31 AM
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Nobility:
I was born to a land where the concept of nobility was a childs tale from dark days best left forgotten. Of course such were the tales of war, undeath, and most all the horrors all here know all to well. This is a different world than that of my birth. Still, it gives me a different point of view.

Nobility...it is title. Title is position, position has benefits and reponsibilities. benefits can be misused. Responsibilities can be neglected. What amount of either of these actions takes place is governed in each individual by their character and the effects of shortcommings can only be mitigated by peers, superiors, and in the extreme by rebellion...though this is always tricky and not always so righteous as the rebellious would have you beleive.

Nobility...it is an ideal. Ideals are hard to pin down with words. It is a selfless service, it is a sense of duty, driven by honor, nurtured by love, tempered by compassion and guided by Wisdom. When it is present in full it needs no title, its is what it is, and in the best case the person who bears the title lives the ideal well enough to justify the trust inherent in the position before and without the position at all. The ideal of nobility is a fragile thing, and it is akin to a perfection of moral and physcial strength and insight that is so impossible to grasp ahold of many are cut quick by the razors edge upon which it lies.

It is true that all Nobles will make mistakes. Does this affect their ability to exude the ideal? Hardly. It matters not that they are perfect in the fact of descision, but that they are able to accept their shortcommings and attempt to better themselves. Yet there are hard decisions to be made at times, these are hardly ever popular. So yes, people will become mad at any noble who holds title long enough. That does not invalidate a persons nobility.

As much as a noble, as a protector and a soldier must weild a "sword" it does not mean they need hold its point to their peoples throat. I have seen better than that. If any here have not then I am saddened for you, but it changes not the truth of things.

Wildcard
Puck Undervine
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 12:24:11 AM

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well i have found that a "noble" i use that word i a new way is a person that enforces the laws but needs o follow them as well

Puck Undervine
Follower of Death
Tapen Mallen
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 2:29:45 AM

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A title of nobility should be granted by the people to one they believe can help improve their life and wellbeing by establishing order and protection. The one who is granted the privilege to be a noble should act on a standard to protect the people. They should do their best to make peace and end fighting that could endanger someone under their protection. They are to hold themselves to the laws of the land just as anyone else. If you rule out of fear, than you rule a hollow land. If you rule out of respect than you have done your job. The point is to protect the people, not control them. That is the duty of a noble in my eyes.

Tapen Mallen, Follower of Life
"Mercy is a value too commonly forgotten."
Thing
Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:17:55 PM
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"Granted by the people?" Huh? Commoners can't grant noble titles. Only nobles can grant noble titles.

Thing
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