Personally I have never bought back a death for any character.... I like the idea that I can die and I enjoy playing at low levels. What can I say, I'm a freak. ;-) I don't think that death buyback is an issue here but I can see where it can be abused. Does anyone else recall WAR's old policy where the buy back was scaled, say 100 goblins for the first death you bought back, 200 for the second or something like that.... What are people opinions of that sort of policy?

Love
'Nise

I spelled this out once before… but that board has since collapsed.

Probability.. For subsequent events 1 'and' 2 'and' 3 to occur
means you muliply the chances of 1X2X3
I shall spell out the two extreme situations - no buybacks & all buybacks
(2 free deaths, 100% chance survival = 1; 1 stone a 9/10 chance = 90% etc)


Chance of Survival with NO buybacks
1* 1* 0.9* 0.8* 0.7* 0.6* 0.5* 0.4* 0.3* 0.2* 0.1*
100% 100% 90% 72% 50.40% 30.24% 15.12% 6% 1.81% 0.36% 0.04%

Chance of Survival with ALL buybacks
1* 1* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9* 0.9*
100% 100% 90% 81% 72.90% 65.60% 59% 53.1% 47.8% 43% 38.7%

I'd be curious to know what character has lived counter to the worst odds.

Personally, I feel we should get rid of goblin death buybacks and just do a 1/10 perm stone draw each time. Let the decreasing odds take care of themselves.

Mixed.

My original character permed at a young (level), but that was the choice of a dangerous character class/mix.
Another with 4 stones in the bag that I have decided I will not do buy backs (which makes each encounter interesting).

The issue isn't losing character level to me - everything is well scaled - but character history (and therefor, involvement) being lost.

In my opinion (READ, all you llamas - it says OPINION), death buybacks hurt NERO. It makes characters live longer than they should, and I think it hurts the game.

That being said, I think I need to clarify that a bit. In my opinion, it does hurt the game - but it only hurts the game for the hideously overpowered PLAYERS who play NERO. Let's face facts - there are good players, and there are bad players. Hell, I know that all of you look at me and think, "Now there's a finely-tuned athletic machine, right there!" I know, and I respectfully thank you. LOL. But, due to sometimes bad luck, sometimes bad decisions, sometimes getting into a situation where you just shouldn't be in, people die. But, I think that everyone deserves the opportunity to buy back a death. I would respectfully submit that if you are over a certain level (say 25, 30, whatever), you should not be able to buy back a death. Period. 55th level characters who consider themselves invincible because they have 2 deaths on their sheet and 5,000 goblin stamps in their pocket is crap. There's no fear there, no adrenaline rush - just the feeling of "I wish it was how it used to be" - when they were scared, and the adrenaline was pumping and the fun was back. Now, they've just seen it all.

So yeah, I would fully support a cap of death buybacks. I'm not targeting the higher-level players - you've been around enough to know how to play, and what you can and can't take. Of course, there's the off-chance that people stop counting hits because they don't want to die, but that's another argument altogether!

There's the opposite argument of your character "investment" - people who perm a character and we never see them back at a NERO event ever again. A shame. If you get so caught up with your character that you quit because they perm? Huh. I'm sorry for you - remember it's a game. When you were at D&D, and you got roasted by a fireball, what did you do? Ripped up the paper, and rolled up another one. Why's LARPing different? Because you spent money on a costume? Sheesh, recycle. LOL

I guess I've played this game so long, that yeah, I've pretty much seen it all (I've been playing NERO since 1991 - so I think I've got a pretty good background), and I play to hang out with people - the game is secondary. Not that I want to perm each and everyone of my characters, but if it happens, well it happens. I won't stop coming - I enjoy the people too much. I enjoy this game as well, but I enjoy the people more. The game is what it is.

That being said, and pointing at the National rulings, well, they have been flawed in the past (and I'm being nice). Besides, when you can buy characters, build and everything else, why wouldn't you buy back a percentage of the possibility of dying? I don't agree with it, but I also see that's it's very well within the rules.

Shawna's math is right on, by the way. Everytime you buy back a death (assuming you die only once an event), you buy back an 9% chance of perming. If you die mutilple times, that percentage rises to over 30%!!! Small price to pay to keep your character (or "investment") going by cashing in goblin stamps, huh?

So, personally, I don't like it. But I see why it's around.

Tim

That Jones guy is a son of a bitch ;-)

I'm all in support of some cap on buybacks. I don't belive it should be level based tho. Maybe so many per year. And if you got all those extra gobbies, build back up chr. So if you perm you step into new skin and keep playing!

Scott,

I'm glad you wrote this, because it's the first explanation I've read that actually made me feel in favor of death buy-backs (and for the first time question the practice of buying XP.)

Also, it helped me understand that the system really does correct itself. You had a good reason to buy back deaths, and you bring up a good point about keeping a character alive in order to keep up with a carefully laid storyline. You showed us (and hopefully some of the newer players) the excitement and work involved with keeping up a plotline and being involved on that level.
It adds an epic quality to characters- there's still risk, maybe even a greater one because of the time you've put in and the influence you have over game events. The importance of those plot lines was so great that you changed a personal policy about game mechanics. I think that's fair.

The other side is how you got involved in that kind of plot: the kind of direction that makes you a facet of the game and not just a guy who larps. I know I've had times in my NERO membership when I would do quite a lot to get that kind of "plot attention". Now isn't really one of those times, but I assume that many of the younger guys who play now (for example, the ones who spend a good deal of time squabbling on the boards--- it shows a pretty sincere interest in the game and un-directed energy) would love to know:

How do you get involved in that level of plot and storyline? What sort of steps go into becomming one of the "big men on campus" of NERO? It's something that's always mystified me, and I'd be curious. Plus, it may be useful to others.

*MY own disclaimer* this is not to say that plot teams are weak or focus only on high level players. Still I always wondered why there's a time in seeminly every weekend when all the powerful folks march away to attend to important business leaving everyone else in the dark. It would surely happen in medieval society, and those players have paid their dues, yes, yes... but what goes into being on the other side of that split?

Juliana (and whomever else reads this),
This is a bit off topic from this thread's intended post, for which I apologize, but I will answer your questions to the best of my ability as both a long time player, and a member of Plot. For those of you whom do not know or have forgotten, I have been a member of the Coronas Plot team, Ashton Plot team, and now the Vargus Plot team. As I stated earlier I have been playing for around 13 years. I apologize in advance for this very lengthy response. These are only my opinions, and don't amount to a hill of squat, other than to myself.

Your question "How do you get involved in that level of plot and storyline? What steps go into becomming one of the "big men on campus" of NERO?" is multi-faceted. From my experience as both a player and Plot member, there are several ways of doing this. For me as a player, specifically as Gunter, the first step was taken a long time ago when I started playing my first year. I was one of the original 8 Black Jackals of Ashton, Danny and Johnny (the true leaders of that group) were in pretty constant communication with Mike Ennis about the rules, how to make weapons, etc... as back then our "Rule Book" was a bad Xerox copy of the 3rd Edition rules. The Jackals had some plot directed to them, including the Gnoll plot line and the Silver Chalice (where we spent 2 months on the plane of Chaos questing). I can't say for sure why, but I can give you my guesses as to why we got plot attention from pretty much the get go. The communication with Ennis before we even came to our first event, the sheer number of players we brought (8 our first event and I think 18 our 2nd), our eagerness to take plot hooks, to go out and adventure... I'm sure all of these things contributed. The next step was when I became friends with Alarain Oakmore, the then Lord of Ashton and River's End. It continued when I expressed Gunter's desire to become a Squire, in game, to Sir Malikie (Richie Robinson). Squires and Knights are usually given quests by their Knights and Lords respectively to complete to prove their abilities, etc... By accepting and doing these quests, which have to be written by Plot, we show that we want and are able to handle plot attention. By becoming a Knight, and then Baron, these things were re-enforced.

And now to make a point which will probably piss some people off...
Nobles always get Plot attention and Plot designed for them. Why? Because they are the people that In Game, have sworn an oath to Protect the lands in which they serve. It is neither good nor bad, right nor wrong, it is just a fact. There are time when these Plot/Story lines can be shared with everyone, there are times when they can't be.

As a player, several things go into whom I find I like to play the game with... I tend to gravitate toward good roleplayers, people who have good costuming, and people with good personalities. When I look at younger players, the so called n00bs, I look for potential future friends. A long time ago, Sir Malikie told Squire Gunter to look out after a certain group of young players, as he felt that they would one day become a force to be reckoned with... some of those players/characters turned out to be Ailen (my Knight), Artor (Baron of Lumberton), and Banzai (Knight of Lumberton). What separated these people, as well as others, out, was their abilities to learn, to think quickly, to be reliable and trustworthy and their desire to take control of a situation and run with it when they had to. Some of this comes down to the individual character, some of it comes down to the individual player. For instance, Gunter would trust Bansai with almost anything, but not Jay's (the same player) hobling character.

Now, speaking as a member of Plot...
I know from personal experience that people who are inventive, who show initiative and express desire to get plot attention get it. People who come to the Plot shack and say "Hey, I want to go to such-and-such" or "I want to go talk to this person about this thing", etc.. almost always get to do what it is they are looking to do. It might not be at that particular time, depending if Plot is running/about to run something major at that time, but from my experience, it almost always gets taken care of. Another way people have gotten Plot lines directed to them is from their Character History, assuming they wrote one, and want it used for Plot purposes. There have been quite a few Plot lines that have come about from this. Another thing that I have noticed is that people who Role-Play at a consistantly high level normally get Plot directed to them, sometimes when they don't want it (ask Tracy Matson or Stephen Looney about that).

I guess the most important thing to remember is this... if you are looking for more involvment in Plot/Story lines, then you have a few options. Go In Game to the people who are involved and asked to be involved, and, just as importantly, go to the Plot shack and let them know that you are looking to do certain things, etc.. Plot teams are not going to know that you are interested in getting involved if you don't get involved or you don't let them know. Not everyone wants to be involved in the Plot/Story lines... When I play Yona, I go out of my way to avoid anything Plot related. I am there to roleplay with the group I am there with, to just have a fun, relaxing time. There is no real way for Plot to know if you want Plot lines, or are avoiding them, unless or until you let them know, either by getting involved, or by not getting involved.

As far as your last point and question.. "I always wondered why there's a time in seeminly every weekend when all the powerful folks march away to attend to important business leaving everyone else in the dark."... As I stated before... sometimes there are things that Nobles need to do that they simply can't tell everyone about. That's not to say that all of the powerful people in town are Nobles, though. Everyone makes their In Game friends, and like to adventure with those friends. The longer you play a particular character and adventure with the same group of characters you get more powerful, as your skills/levels increase, but just as importantly, as you learn the game as a player. Those groups, be them Noble or not, adventure on their own, because of the tight relationships they have made. When I adventure as Gunter, meaning when I go modding, or out on a hooked mod, I have a rule of thumb I almost always follow... I never take more then 8 or 9 people and I only take the people that Gunter trusts, if I can help it. This is because I feel as a player, that if you have a larger group, you can't keep control of the situation, and people die. Is that to say I have never felt the need to take the entire town on a mod... absolutely not. There are times when out of necesity you have to take all available hands. When this happens I always try to let people know what is up, why we are doing what we are doing, etc... but sometimes you just run out of time or energy or both for explanations.

People, and I am including the characters we all play in this, make their own judgement calls on whom we trust and whom we don't. There are good people/characters, there are evil people/characters, and there are neutral people/characters. We each decide for each character we play where we fall into these categories and who are friends are. If you are a good character, why would you trust someone you feel is evil to join you on an adventure, and vice versa? And good/evil isn't the only category by which all of us judge ourselves and others. It's kinda like real life... there are people we just like, and people we just don't like. Why would you or your character adventure with someone they don't like if they don't have to? When the group of powerful folks march away to attend to important business, why would they take others when they don't have to? I realize this might sound kind of harsh, but it's reality. Yes, reality in a fantasy game, who knew...

So... my words of advice summarized for people who want to be more involved in Plot/Story lines...
1. Roleplay your ass off
2. Show enthusiam and a willingness to learn and do things
3. Go to the In Game people who are involved in Plot/Storylines and ask to be involved
4. If you want your own Plot/Story line, go to Plot and let them know
5. Get involved with a group of people whom you like and trust and do things
6. Have fun

I know this is long, but I hope it helps at least one person. As I stated at the begining of this massive post, these are only my opinions, and as such aren't binding and aren't garunteed to result in anything, but, I am willing to bet you would get results if you follow my suggestions, at least in Vargus... lol.

Scott

Something to help with this, slightly cheesey OOG, but gravitate towards eachother...you know who you are, the faces that you've seen for a couple years, but not longer. Get together, chat, maybe someone has a quest they need help with, or know of a guy in a place that needs stuff done. You can start to form the bonds that Scott's talking about.

One exception to Scott's "go to the shack and say 'I want to do this' comment." Make sure if you use this option, that you have a clear idea of where you're going (someone that's a scout of the area would be good) and a specific goal in mind. You won't always get what you want, but you'll get something. If you just go up and say "I want to go look for trolls to kill" most likely, you'll be brushed off, lead around in circles and not getting much of anything, or worst of all, run into something much larger that kills you. The proper way to say that is "Joe here has scout <town> and tracking. We're looking for a troll camp we heard about and want to go investigate and see if it's just a small village or a war party. If it's a war party, we want to try and stop them. If it's a village we want to burn and pillage...not in that order."

Having SOME idea of what you want to do and IG skill to at least get you headed in the right direction, will reward you much better than the aforementioned undirected troll killing.

Hope that helps as well!

Ps. Gunter dies a lot because he's a tard.