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Cast on the Fly VS Memorization Options · View
Cade
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:58:07 PM

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I was just curious as to the pros and the cons on Cast on the fly and Memorization are?

I love Cotf (cast on the fly), gives me the ability to chose those spells when I need them. For me its easier to go I have 4- 5th level spells then 2 Shield Magic spells and 2 Releases. Plus as a NPC you dont have to sit down for 5 mins to mem spells before you got and attack the town. I know I use to forget all the time when I NPCed and just cast on the fly.

What is everyone else's opinion on this?

Will WAR ever go to Cast on the Fly?
Sponsor
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 9:58:07 PM
Joseph
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2010 10:09:01 PM
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I just think memorization make production more important.

Tim Holt
Posted: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:03:59 AM
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The idea of cast on the fly is a lot more fun. The reality is in the heat of things it is easier to remember that you have 3 shield magics than it is to remember that you have 3 shield magics and that web is at the same level. When we were cast on the fly I saw a lot of overcasting at 5th and 8th levels in particular. That in and of itself is not a reason for change but memorization also allows for lower level casters to fell cool when they memorize something essential that no one else has. Specialization makes each caster unique and allows for more interesting logistical and tactical situations.
Reesie Damashay
Posted: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:16:56 AM
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Tim said it perfectly...

I really wanted to add something here, but I think Tim said it about as short and sweet as possible.

-Mularcik

Francesco
Posted: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 8:45:31 AM
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I appreciate the strategy of memorization more, and agree that cast on the fly led to some amount of overcasting, in general.

Personally, I'm a little more hesitant to go buck-wild with casting [EDIT: under Memorization], because I might not be so sure of what I've got left. I also tend to check my battle board much more often. This is good, because I know I accidentally overcast sometimes... The more I keep an eye on my remaining spells, though (and the more specific I am in those spells) the more likely I am to know exactly when I've run out, and not over do it.


In general, I really like thinking ahead through the rest of a reset and considering - okay... what might we run into today / tonight? How many Shield Magics should I memorize, and how many can I use scrolls for? It really does make that production much more useful, to handle all those edge cases, so that I can free up the "gotta cast quickly" spells, vs those that I can afford to dig out my scroll book. I was really dubious at first, when WAR decided to bring back memorization, after doing CotF for a few years... The first event was kinda rocky, but after that, I love it.


The pain probably comes most for those that regularly chapter hop. I don't play much outside of WAR, so for me, it's business as usual. But for those that regularly play elsewhere, it's like that transition pain over and over again. As a caster, I get into a habit of thinking about my spells, scrolls, and other inventory in a particular fashion, and I have to rely on habit and instinct to keep the numbers and counts straight during the course of a game and in the heat of battle. If I were constantly needing to change how I think about my spells (and possibly scrolls), I'm pretty sure it would be a lot more painful.

-sean / Francesco

Marius
Posted: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 11:41:06 AM
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I think choosing your spells helps balance the melee classes vs the caster classes. You might say that rogues/warriors can choose their slays as parries and assassinates as doges but there are pre-reqs for those skills and they cost more than a 9th lvl spell. Another example of this is say you need to take down a caster and you were an alchemist. All of a sudden your faced with a caster with 4 poison shields instead of the 1-2 he'd normally take.

Memorizing also makes you take those other spells like circle of powers and dispels just in case they are needed on mods.

It also drives the economy. You can now charge for protectives, wards, etc.
michael
Posted: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:00:37 PM
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I cannot disagree more about balancing. The reason we at NcN are now trying CotF is TO balance casters vs the other classes.
I have never heard of casters over powering being a problem compared to fighters that swing all day long and rogues that are just plain broken.

I personally like memorization because it is more like what I think a caster should be, but for balance and game play I had to give CotF a try.

I will say it is tough scaling for when an 8 block can toss 8 confines at you followed by 8 webs, which is giving me pause to lean back towards memorization. I would like to find a way to achieve scaling without nerfing casters further.
Tim Holt
Posted: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 12:11:05 PM
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Memorization does not nerf casters...it makes them choose where their strengths will lie. You can still be a straight bindo caster if you want to.
Nine Rhys
Posted: Thursday, July 29, 2010 12:38:16 PM
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Cade,
To answer the final part of your question, WAR used to be CotF, but switched to Mem. a few years back (a decision I fully support).

I prefer Mem. for a few reasons

1. Cuts down on over-casting, which everyone who plays a scholar (myself included) tries to avoid.
2. Makes play more tactical, which Tim already covered.
3. The thing that I really like about Mem. is that it creates really individual casters. For example, "Calm" isn't a spell that sees lots and lots of use, but my character (Nine) always has one or two. It's a thing that people know about him. Cedarlock always has calm animal (I think he's actually the only one that ever has it). What spells a caster takes can really help the player define their character, which I think is really neat.
4. As far as issues of balance are concerned, I don't think that memorization vs. CotF makes a huge difference one way or another. If a fighter rolls up on Nine, unless he doesn't have a "Shield Magic" (or equivilent), or starts pretty far away, then Nine is pretty boned. Now, there are better casters out there who can get off multiple spells pretty quickly, but even then it's pretty rare that a caster takes a fighter in straight combat. I don't think it's an issue of balance, it's part of the fundamental design of the game. If scholars were created in such a way that they were just as combat effective as a fighter, then why would anyone play fighters (considering all the other advantages that scholars would have)?

Dave Jurns

Peace be with you,
Nine Rhys

Marius
Posted: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:13:50 PM
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I can expand on my balance statement from your previous example Nine, subbing in my character.

Templar with mace/shield.
I can wear 30 armor.

The hardest hitting warriors I saw last event were doing 15s. 1st hit is Magic Armor, and would take another 2 to get through my armor and prevent my casting.

My normal tree for 2nd lvl would look something like 1 cure/cause wounds, 1 pin, 2 magic armor. All of sudden I have a good warrior on me, in cotf I would be looking at 4 magic armors for the blows the warrior landed I did not block. I just took the advantage from him and gave it to myself. He now has to hit me 6 times before I hit him with 2 spells.

This is more of an issue of low to mid lvl than a high lvl problem, cause once a warrior gets cloak bindings and cloak some dmg types, he is going to steam roll you. Also spell parrys.


Banzai
Posted: Thursday, July 29, 2010 8:50:37 PM

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when WAR first went back to Memorization from CoTF, I was really bummed. The first event I went to though, changed my mind. We ran out of healing right before the 6p meditation. I was on the tavern porch in Ashton watching 4 sessions of first aid & groups forming up to cover those first aiding the dying. I immediatly changed my mind and I don't ever want to go back to CoTF.

Also, I played NcN this weekend with CoTF and realized that I was over casting just like I used to before we went back to med. I agree with Sean's assessment completely.

Jay
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